WTF so we're supposed to warn for pregnancy now?

[transemacabre]

Over on norsekink, the mods put up a list of triggery content that must be warned for in fic. Aside from common triggers, like rape and self-harm, the mods in their wisdom decided to include... pregnancy!

Look, I try to be a good girl about putting warnings on my fics. Sometimes I think I make my fanfics sound scarier than they are, because I will warn for stuff only alluded to or mentioned very briefly, to be on the safe side. I also have no problem with common triggers, like the aforementioned rape and self-harm. But pregnancy? Pregnancy. For real-real? Should I warn for farts and sneezes and morning wood and other banal things that human bodies do sometimes? Another poster on NK reasonably points out that s/he has a trigger for car crashes, which is much more unnatural than pregnancy, but wouldn't think of asking for a trigger warning for it. Due to some awful stuff in my past, I don't like reading about people being beaten with crowbars, but that's kind of a specific trigger and I'm not going to demand that everyone on a kink meme abide by a warning for goddamn crowbars.

I can understand warning for miscarriage. It might be upsetting to someone who's suffered one. I can understand warning for mpreg, as that's a kink that's about as mainstream as furry porn (which is to say, not very). I can understand warning for a graphic birth scene, as that's a little TMI. But warning for pregnancy leaves me befuddled. It makes me wonder about the people who find it triggery -- can they not leave the house, for fear of seeing a pregnant woman waddling down the street?

Fuck it. I am not warning for pregnancy in my fics, which means I won't be writing on NK. Flist, should I note my not-warning-for-pregnancy stance in my userinfo, so that people won't wander into my lj and be ~traumatized~ by mentions of pregnant people?

Comments

[tavella.livejournal.com]

Wow, yeah, that's a little bizarre.

[curtana.livejournal.com]

You mean people... reproduce? biologically? I am shocked, I tell you, shocked and disgusted!

[transemacabre.livejournal.com]

Even worse, do you know how they do it?

*shocked whisper* he puts his thing in her thing and they have sex!

[caiusmajor.livejournal.com]

Hmm, sounds mostly like poor phrasing on their part--they probably mean mpreg or, since it *is* the kink meme, pregnancy being used as a sexual kink--which is a little different from just pregnant women walking down the street.

...or they borrowed their list from the Transformers kink meme without realizing that they needed to make allowances for mammals being mammals. :D Robot pregancy DOES need a warning, IMO. D:

[perletwo.livejournal.com]

Well yeah, I was gonna point out, being as it's the kinkmeme that has Loki in it, there's a lot of weird-ass (pun intended) variations on mpreg being prompted. I particularly recall one which called for a villain to force-breed Loki, like a dog in a puppy mill...

[transemacabre.livejournal.com]

For something like the prompt you described, I would warn for rape and forced pregnancy. But for a story where someone -- not even necessarily Loki, just anyone gets pregnant without rape or any other obvious horror, does that really deserve a trigger warning? That is a typical biological function for mammals. I am not warning for that.

[tavella.livejournal.com]

The new norsekink mods aren't really the, um, sharpest tools in the shed, as far as I can tell.

[transemacabre.livejournal.com]

Well, it apparently takes, what, 15 mods to run one kink meme? And several of that number allegedly find pregnant people triggering. Maybe they should retire from running an active kink meme filled with sensitive subject matter, and instead pour themselves a nice hot cup of tea, lay down for a few hours, and try not to get stressed so much.

[transemacabre.livejournal.com]

Here's the rationale from the NK mods themselves:

While you may not have seen fanfiction warning for pregnant characters, others, including several of the mods, have. It is a trigger for some people even if it is not for you, and for that reason we are including it in the list of required warnings. You may disagree, but we feel it is necessary as we are attempting to make the community a welcoming place to all members, and for us, that means making sure people are able to avoid content they find uncomfortable.

So there we have it, straight from the horse's mouth. Allegedly "several of the mods" find pregnancy triggering in some way. Not mpreg, not forced pregnancy, not pregnant robots, just plain ol' pregnancy.

[ani-bester.livejournal.com]

huh... seriously? Pregnancy? not Mpreg (which honestly shouldn't be warned for in the same sense rape is warned for IMHO).

I used to think people confused "trigger" with "squicks" and now I'm pretty sure some people are. Which is a shame as it minimizes what people who are actually triggered go through >.>

I don't know, I always thought people put too much onto the writers anyway as far as triggering goes. You can not possibly, as a writer, predict, or warn for, everything in a fic that might trigger someone as triggers are not always logical, so we warn for the big ones, but it can't all be on the author to warn for and consider everything, especially normal, no forced, reproductive processes.

[transemacabre.livejournal.com]

I think you hit the nail on the head, Ani. I also agree that lumping squicks in with triggers devalues triggers; it sorta reminds me how people compare everything even slightly traumatic to rape.

I try not to be a dick about writing fanfic, and I have no problem warning for common triggers. But I am, at the end of the day, a human being. I cannot be held responsible for every phobia and squick you (and I'm using the universal 'you') may or may not have. If something as banal as pregnancy gets you so upset you need to be warned of any mention of it, then you probably need to get some counseling and seriously rethink your life. I am not going to warn for something that ridiculous.

[rulethirtyfour.livejournal.com]

I think that's reasonable. As long as pregnancy is used an excuse to take away women's control of their own bodies, it is a trigger. Things like this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/24/america-pregnant-women-murder-charges) make it a trigger. No one is forced to live for nine months with the knowledge that there's an unwanted, parasitic creature growing inside them for ~*having morning wood~*. Think about this again from the point of view that pregnancy in today's political climate can mean your body becoming public property at a moment's notice.

[rulethirtyfour.livejournal.com]

Also, it's a kink meme. I think the assumption there is warning for pregnancy as it relates to sex and kink, not as a random side mention that, you know, Jane's friend is pregnant in a Thor/Loki fill, or something. That's a very different thing from being horrified by "pregnant women waddling down the street".

[transemacabre.livejournal.com]

WHOA DUDE. You are getting your politics all over a biological function. Simmer down. As I said before, IF I were to fill something like a prompt mentioned above, I would warn for forced pregnancy. I am not going to warn for a normal, unforced pregnancy. That is ridiculous. If you cannot handle that, you need to defriend my lj and go on your merry way. I don't care about your politics and I'm not interested in debating with you.

[rulethirtyfour.livejournal.com]

I didn't realize having different views precluded being LJ friends (or friends of any sort) with people! Anyway, that wasn't an angry comment, and I'm not sure why you're telling me to simmer down—I just read the post and the comments and felt that you were missing a reason that pregnancy might be upsetting for people.

The social/political climate of the world is what shapes things like squicks and triggers—I didn't use the word "politics" to try to bring some sort of crazy left-wing crusade into your journal, I used it because things like that article I linked are what makes pregnancy scary to me in particular, and what helps me understand why it may be triggering for other people.

Anyway, I had no desire to unfriend you before you replied so rudely to my comment, but I'm not sure that I want this kind of immaturity on my friendslist. It's not cool to belittle stuff that upsets other people, even if you don't think it's something they should be bothered by, and this much fuss over putting "warning: pregnancy" at the top of a fic is completely gratuitous.

P.S. This is chaviola's alternate journal, if you didn't know. I'm not just some random person who wandered into your LJ.

[transemacabre.livejournal.com]

I do not need a lecture on how the world works. I do not bring politics into this lj. If something as banal as pregnancy is that scary to you in a purely fictional situation such as in a fanfic, then it is best that you do not subject yourself to my lj. I will do my best to be considerate when it comes to common and obvious triggers, but I will not cater to people's absurd squicks.

If you wish to speak further on this subject, I ask you to contact me via PM. This is a sincere request on my part; I am not mean nor am I mocking.

[kirke-novak.livejournal.com]

That's nothing. In Glee fandom, you have to WARN for Kurt being on top.
Warn.
Because he's fay and god forbid if he tops, gasps, a real man - that's scarring (actual bloody quote).

Translation: fandom, u crazy.

apologies for capslock

[transemacabre.livejournal.com]

ARGH

THATS SO STUPID I DON'T EVEN

*claws air*

[lokifan]

I. WHAT.

I'm really enjoying the kink meme but I find some of the mod decisions (deleting comments they thought were useless - and doing it incompetently - and now this) were VERY questionable.

I think the idea was maybe 'warn for mpreg' and they didn't want to judge people's kinks? But adding this natural thing - and a thing that happens only for women (and the odd trans man) to a list that ONLY OTHERWISE INCLUDES SCARY, HARMFUL TRIGGERS is just... no. I would be totally down with this in a non-kink-meme comm where the etiquette was to warn for things like 'lots of angst' or 'bondage', but... no.

[harlot-ohara.livejournal.com]

"Loki is pregnant with Thor's baby."

Hmmmm, what should I warn for? Probably not incest, you know...just pregnancy.

That seems like a serious confusion between squick and trigger. I think that mprg is squicky but I don't have a mental breakdown when I read about it. Are they suggesting that women who have miscarried will be triggered, maybe? That seems REALLY specific.

[transemacabre.livejournal.com]

I would and have warned for miscarriage. That's something that could be legitimately upsetting to someone who's actually suffered one. But I do side-eye the mods adding pregnancy to a list of scary, awful, traumatizing stuff. Is it just me, or does it come across as womb-hateration or something?