Just WHAT was wrong with Charles VI of France and Henry VI of England?

[transemacabre]

For centuries, King Charles VI of France and his grandson, Henry VI of England, have been remembered as "mad monarchs", who's sad situations led to intrigue, war, and their eventual downfall. There's been quite a bit of discussion over the years as to what, exactly, was wrong with them. Although no modern-day psychologist or mental health professional will ever be able to examine them and know for sure, my best guess is catatonic schizophrenia, triggered by stress.

Here's some of Charles VI's symptoms:
-- Losing consciousness
-- Complaining of severe pains "like a sword piercing his heart"
-- Inability to recognize family or friends
-- Paranoia and sudden attacks of violence
-- Delusions; believing he was made of glass, insisting his name was Georges, etc.
-- Wailing, screaming, barking like a dog
-- Racing around the palace until he was physically exhausted
-- Refusing to be bathed, shaved, urinating in his clothing
-- Appeared to sense the onset of an attack, would order swords and daggers removed from him lest he use them to kill himself or others

And Henry VI's symptoms:
-- Melancholy and possible depression
-- Lapsed into stupors, with an inability to care for himself or recognize his relatives or surroundings, followed by periods of lucidity that could last for years at a time
-- While in a stupor, would have to be physically moved from place to place
-- Spent much of his time in prayer and was passive and non-violent, unlike his grandfather
-- Saw "visions" (hallucinations) of Jesus and the Virgin Mary and heard voices (auditory delusions) as recounted by John Blacman, a priest who knew him personally
-- Disordered speech, as recounted by French ambassadors in 1445, Henry would say "Saint Jehan, grant mercis!" whenever he heard the name of his uncle Charles VII of France, and when the ambassadors went to leave, he cried out "No!" while continuing to smile.

Moreover, Charles VI's mother, Jeanne de Bourbon, seems to have been mentally ill as well, according to Froissart, who claims she "lost her good sense and memory".

The catatonia, delusions, and immobility suffered by both Charles and Henry suggest catatonic schizophrenia. In addition, Charles (but not Henry) showed signs of excessive mobility, which is sometimes found in catatonic schizophrenics. Their disordered speech is possibly the result of thought blocking.

Comments

[angmar-bucket.livejournal.com]

Holy crap, that's really interesting.

From what I learned (extremely minimally) in Art School, a lot of inbreeding made the royals really susceptible to stuff like this. O.O

[transemacabre.livejournal.com]

The inbreeding side of it didn't come about til a bit later: at this point in history, the royals still weren't massively inbred. When most of Europe was Catholic, they had some (not much) choice of marriage partners. When the Reformation split Europe into Catholic and Protestant, the pool of acceptable partners got smaller, leading to (for example) the notorious Hapsburg inbreeding that resulted in the deformed Carlos II of Spain.

Henry VI's parents, Henry V of England and Catherine de Valois, were not closely related to one another. Henry V's parents were second cousins but there wasn't any history of mental illness in that family. Charles VII's parents were half-first cousins once removed, which genetically is the same thing as second cousins.

[angmar-bucket.livejournal.com]

Got ya. Thank-you for your daily distribution of facts. :P!

[angmar-bucket.livejournal.com]

Er, that was meant to be a yum-yum emoticon, not a "nyah nyah" emoticon ;-;

[transemacabre.livejournal.com]

BTW, Carlos II, who I mentioned briefly, was a product of so much inbreeding that his genome was actually more homozygous than that of a child that was a product of a normal brother/sister incestuous mating. In other words, if you went and humped your brother, y'all's child would still be somehow less inbred than Carlos II. Most people have 32 great-great-great-grandparents. Carlos had had only 14.

Un-fucking-believably, Carlos had a full-sister named Margarita Teresa, who married her UNCLE, Holy Roman Emperor Leopold I. They produced one surviving daughter, Maria Antonia of Austria, who must be the most inbred person in modern history of whom we have good genealogical records.

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

A genetic test of remains would be interesting.
Porphyria?
Henry's half-brother the Earl of Richmond may be the conduit for it getting into the later royals.

[transemacabre.livejournal.com]

I thought porphyria too, but one of the consistent symptoms of the porphyria that affected George III and some of his descendants was *incessant* talking; George III was known to talk for hours until his voice became hoarse and he foamed at the mouth. Victoria of Hesse, one of Queen Victoria's granddaughters, would talk for hours, regardless of whether anyone was there to listen to her. Charlotte, Princess of Wales, daughter of George IV, also seems to have had porphyria and in her letters she complains of "At times I laugh and talk away as fast that you would think I had no cares at all", all while suffering abdominal pains and tightness of the chest.

Porphyria also causes intense abdominal pain and convulsions, which Mary, Queen of Scots was known to suffer from, and Charlotte of Wales may have died, along with her child, from an acute porphyria attack. The catatonia and lack of abdominal pain (Charles VI insisted it was his chest that hurt), convulsions, and incessant talking, makes me doubt that Henry VI and Charles VI had porphyria. But yes, only DNA tests will ever settle the issue.

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

It would be interesting, because the question is, how did it get into the Stewart line? It has been mooted as James V's cause of death. Also, the gynæcological symptoms of one of the late 19-early 20C German princesses, as dscribed in a documentary I saw about it (by the authors of Purple Secret), reminded me of Mary I. Catherine de Valois is the obvious connection between all of them... And symptoms can vary between individuals and through the generations.